If a person converts within Israel and the government says "no, not a good conversion" can they go and get their conversion rubber-stamped in (say) London? Or would they have to go through the whole process again? Or can they now not get a different conversion at all?
The religious situation in Israel is, sadly, extremely screwed up: the law is in the hands of the ultra-Orthodox, who don't seem to have any respect for what for me is the prime rule: thou shalt not screw around with people's lives.
(In re that comment about retroactive annulling conversions: For divorces, I have heard after the woman is presented with a get (bill of divorcement) in the presence of witnesses, the witnesses then give her a signed affidavit that they have seen a valid get given to her, and then the get is taken back from her and destroyed; specifically so it is impossible for someone else to come back in ten years and say her get was invalid, making any subsequent relationship she has been in adultery, and any subsequent children she has had mamzerim (bastards). In my view, conversion should damn well get the same irrevocability: converts who lapse in their observancy should be treated no differently to born Jews who do likewise.)
Anyhow, I don't know what the answer to your question would be. The religious courts in London are not obligated to take a conversand's word against that of another religious court. In my book, if they were to examine them and come to the conclusion that they were sufficiently knowledgeable in Jewish law and practice already, they should give them a rubber-stamp conversion.
Unfortunately, the Orthodox seem to hold that conversion should be as difficult as possible—typical Orthodox conversions last two years, and involve having to live with an observant family part of the time—so I wouldn't be surprised if they made such a person go through the whole thing again.
Non-Orthodox religious courts are more likely to give them an expedited, if not rubber-stamped, conversion.
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Date: 2008-07-16 12:51 pm (UTC)The religious situation in Israel is, sadly, extremely screwed up: the law is in the hands of the ultra-Orthodox, who don't seem to have any respect for what for me is the prime rule: thou shalt not screw around with people's lives.
(In re that comment about retroactive annulling conversions: For divorces, I have heard after the woman is presented with a get (bill of divorcement) in the presence of witnesses, the witnesses then give her a signed affidavit that they have seen a valid get given to her, and then the get is taken back from her and destroyed; specifically so it is impossible for someone else to come back in ten years and say her get was invalid, making any subsequent relationship she has been in adultery, and any subsequent children she has had mamzerim (bastards). In my view, conversion should damn well get the same irrevocability: converts who lapse in their observancy should be treated no differently to born Jews who do likewise.)
Anyhow, I don't know what the answer to your question would be. The religious courts in London are not obligated to take a conversand's word against that of another religious court. In my book, if they were to examine them and come to the conclusion that they were sufficiently knowledgeable in Jewish law and practice already, they should give them a rubber-stamp conversion.
Unfortunately, the Orthodox seem to hold that conversion should be as difficult as possible—typical Orthodox conversions last two years, and involve having to live with an observant family part of the time—so I wouldn't be surprised if they made such a person go through the whole thing again.
Non-Orthodox religious courts are more likely to give them an expedited, if not rubber-stamped, conversion.