A lack of notes from Limmud: The Story of the story

[lethargic_man]

"The Story of the Story - a Bird's Eye View of a Talmudic Sugiya from Top to Bottom", by Ofek Meir, sounded interesting from its blurb:

In these study sessions we will discover the connection between extinguishing the Shabbat candle, Hillel's mid-day shower, the demand to censor the books of Proverbs and Ecclesiastes, a live dog, a dead lion and a convert. An in-depth study of Tractate Shabbar 29b will transform this unbelievable muddle into a masterpiece relating to the human condition.

This was a two-part session; I went to the first part, and all we did was go though the Mishna and the first half of the Gemara, which was not actually as interesting as the blurb made it sound. So I decided to skip the second half, and go to something more interesting instead. I could always read the rest of the sugiya in my free time, I thought, given that we'd been given it in translation.

The problem, of course, is that after reading it, it was still an incredible muddle for me. Now I'm looking for someone to transform it for me into a masterpiece relating to the human condition.

blackherring, you'll have done this as part of your Daf Yomi. Do you (or anyone else familiar with the text) fancy shedding a bit of light on this for me?

Comments

[hatam-soferet.livejournal.com]

Uhrm. I could have a stab at the candle, the shower, and the convert, but I'm not sure about the middle bits. He didn't bring any other sources?

[lethargic-man.livejournal.com]

It's all there in the Gemara; I have it here in translation (it's a big wodge so I'm not transcribing it here). The problem is not understanding each bit; it's understanding how they tie together as a commentary on the Mishna. The Mishnah reads:

If one extinguishes the [Shabbos] lamp because he is afraid of Gentiles, robbers or an evil spirit, or for the sake of an invalid, that he should sleep, he is not culpablew. If [because] he would spare the lamp, the oil, or the wick, he is culpable. R. Yose exempts him in all cases, except in respect of the wick, because he makes charcoal.

(Familiar, huh?) The Gemara starts with a reasonable discussion abut the clause "he is culpable", but then goes on:

The question was asked before R. Tanḥum of Neway: What about extinguishing a burning lamp for a sick man on thge Sabbath? Thereupon he commenced and spake: Thou, Solomon, where is thy wisdom and where thine understanding? Is it not enough for thee that thy words contradict the words of thy father David, but that they are self-contradictory!"

This is merely the start of a long chain of discussions, some of which are connected to the last, some not apparently so, and seem to which wander further and further from the original point of clarifying the Mishnah.

[hatam-soferet.livejournal.com]

Oh, ok, I didn't go on far enough.

The thing is about tying together sugiyot is that you can't expect them to tie up; sometimes it really is just a chain of linked thoughts that, by the end of the chain, don't have anything much to do with the beginning. Following from that, if you want to try and connect the end bit to the beginning bit and say profound things about the human condition, you can, but there are going to be as many answers as there are teachers, most likely. Sometimes that's not the case, but sometimes it is. If you wanted to try and work it out, the way to go about it would be to flick through the rishonim (borrow an Artscroll from a shul, much as I hate to say it - they summarise the juicy bits) and see what they thought was interesting (if anything), try summarising the ideas for yourself in a thought chain, summarise the mishnah, and see if you could connect it to any kind of profound thought. Should take you a couple of hours. I haven't done it myself for this sugiya, so don't have anything to offer beyond that.

[lethargic-man.livejournal.com]

Sounds like far too much effort. ;^b