lethargic_man's indirect relationship with the Roma

[lethargic_man]

This post was originally going to be about the irreverent attitude conveyed by such (indirect) encounters with Roma (Gypsies) I've had; but it seems to have grown in the process.

I've been interested in Roma for some time, but was surprised, on looking into my mail archive, to see where that interest originated. I suppose my first encounters with them were in the Richard Bachman (i.e. Stephen King) novel Thinner in 1992 (not that real-life Roma turned out to be at all impressed by their portrayal in that), and then the R.A. Lafferty short story "Land of Great Horses" in 1997.

Then, in 1999, I made a passing reference, in a story I was writing, set a thousand years in the future, to the "fall of first the government and then the state of United Carpathiastan." After reading a book review (of what I have now no idea) in the Jewish Chronicle, though, I decided to replace the flippant reference to United Carpathiastan with one to Romanestan: a state for the Roma, who have had no country of their own since they left India a thousand years ago.

After receiving feedback from my writers' group that the story did not involve enough happening, I decided to rewrite it from the perspective of a refugee from the fall of Romanestan. This led to much researching of the Roma, and my becoming much more knowledgeable about them. Of the books I read then, the ones that stick in my mind the most are the two by Jan Yoors, The Gypsies, describing his life after he ran away with the Gypsies aged twelve, and then spent his teenage years alternating between spending time with his parents and wandering with a company of Roma all over Europe; and Crossing, describing his experience during the War, aiding the Resistance against the Nazis and acting as a go-between between them and the Roma (of whom all those we had previously met ended up being murdered in what the Roma call o Baro Porrajmos—the Great Devouring).

Then, in 2002, I happened by chance to turn the television on to the Radio 3 World Music Awards on BBC Knowledge (the precursor to BBC Four), which featured, inter alia, a couple of pieces by a band of Romani musicians from Romania called Taraf de Haïdouks. The first, "The Ballad of the Dictator" (written shortly after the ousting from power of Ceauşescu), featured the band leader, a man in his seventies called Nicolae Neacşu, playing a violin by the unusual technique of dragging a loop of horsehair along the string, resulting in an uncharacteristically scratchy sound:

(I wouldn't recommend listening to the whole of this one unless you understand Romanian!) The second piece, "Return of the Magic Horses", was a manic piece which featured what sounded like fifteen minutes of music compressed into just five. I was instantly hooked. This track doesn't seem to be on YouTube, but here's a somewhat less manic piece of theirs:

Some of the tracks on the album of theirs I got, Band of Gypsies, featured a Macedonian Romani band called Kočani Orkestar; strangely, though, I didn't investigate them any further until iddewes mentioned them in the music tag of a post of hers last summer. This led to me investigating them on YouTube and heading off to buy their albums Alone At My Wedding and The Ravished Bride (and L'Orient Est Rouge, which I wasn't so impressed by).

Then last autumn, when I gave Band of Gypsies to bluepork as a birthday present, he recommended me back the self-styled Gypsy punk rock band Gogol Bordello, whom I went to see in concert in Edinburgh in March, and whose album Super Taranta is now one of my favourite albums. This isn't off Super Taranta, but if I had to choose one Gogol Bordello track, it would have to be this one:

Then just the other week, listening to Terry Gilliam on Desert Island Discs got me into the Hungarian Romani band Parno Graszt, and I have now got myself a copy of their album Ez A Világ Való (This World Is Made For Me). They are characterised by slightly unusual instrumentation, including milk churns, a pair of spoons, and "oral bass" (continuous improvised scatting). Here's another tune of theirs on YouTube (slow introduction; more typical from 0:43 in):

---

When reading the Yoors books, one thing that came through strongly was the irreverent, almost wacky, attitude that characterised the Roma:

[Pulika, the leader of the kumpaniya] was having a quiet beer at a tavern not far from our encampment when the local veterinarain bluntly accused him of kidnaping and detaining a child. Devoid of any real guilt or a sense of wrongdoing, but ever aware of a good opportunity to ridicule the Gaje [non-Gypsies], Pulika calmly replied that it was none of the man's business. As an afterthought he warned the man to keep away from me [the young Yoors]. He warmed up to his role and in convincing detail described the cradle snatching that had never occurred. The Gaje were baffled and disarmed by his simple confirmation of their worst suspicions and by his complete cynicism. Pulika winked broadly at them, paid for his beer, and left before they had recovered their breath. Pulika relished his success of sorts as a teller of tall tales. At every opportunity he repeated his story, embellished it, embroidered upon it, changing the country, the social status of the stolen child's parents, the age at which he supposedly had been abducted by the Gypsies. Pulika did his best to live up to this legend of notoriety. [...] Then, one day [...] the camp was surrounded and raided by the mounted police. They were accompanied by several indignant witnesses: the people had told the story to and, it suddently became obvious to him, had been too thoroughly taken in. I was soon found. However, on checking my identity all concerned were much relieved to find that I was not the son of a certain well-to-do figure of the Austro-Hungarian nobility whom Pulika had made me out to be. I heard the police officers and the Gaje talk about all the other little boys that had been stolen by the Gypsies, and I suddenly realised these were only my numerous alter egos, innocently made up by Pulika's fertile imagination.

When I got my Taraf de Haïdouks CD, I wondered whether the same attitude would manifest itself there too, in Roma from sixty plus years later and half the width of Europe away. (Yoors talks about descriptions such as "Vlax Romani" being inaccurate as the same companies would wander from France to Romania and beyond, but of course for most of the intervening time, there was an Iron Curtain dividing Europe in two, and besides, Roma have been forced to become sedentary in many countries in Central Europe since.)

Anyhow, the answer to my question was yes, as the Band of Gypsies sleeve notes demonstrate:

Two journalists show up, roaring with laughter. Marius and Caliu, two wily Taraf members, offered to give them a ride from the hotel. They climb into a wreck driven by a friend of one of the guys. The engine starts coughing after 200 metres and the car grinds to a halt. Marius feigns anger: "What kind of person is this, taking us in a car that doesn't even work! You know, I've got a musical ear, I could tell right away that this car was going to be sick!" Then he appeals to the two passengers: "OK, please lend us some money to buy gasoline, we don't have any change on us."

Or:

Along comes old Ion Manole on his bicycle. He was one of the leading figures on those early European tours by the Taraf. Hat jammed tight on his head, thick glasses, saucy stories 24 hours a day, his powerful voice dominated the band. But as he aged (he's now over 80) he became a bit deaf. His tuning began to suffer from that so they had to leave him behind. He came to the first concert in Bucharest but couldn't convince anyone to let him on stage (after all, the purpose of the concerts was to record an album). Anyway, he is determined to show us how fit he is, as he keeps cycling back and forth in front of us... Suddenly we hear faint traces of music coming from a distance. The music grows louder. Pulled by a tractor, here come a large cart on which the entire Taraf are perched. They play, they sing, their voices, violins and accordions valiantly struggling against the sound of the engine. It's an unreal, dream-like spectacle. Or rather, "film-like", which is hardly surprising as this is one of Elsa's ideas. [Their film director, also Romany.] She's been shooting since dawn, and has just filmed this long tracking shot in the countryside, the Taraf singing at the top of their lungs while the trees and clouds pass by in the background. This imprompty stage stops dead in front of us and the Taraf, grins stretching from ear to ear, welcome us with a song.

The same irreverence can also be heard coming through in (some of) their music (not to mention the video on YouTube in which three members of the band perform in the back of a travelling car (complete with the noise of traffic going past), interrupting themselves in the middle of singing to give directions to the driver)—and that of Gogol Bordello, and that of Parno Graszt.

Nicolae Neacşu himself was brimming over with charisma; you can hear it in his music even if you'd never seen a picture of him or read about him. I was quite upset when I started looking to see what YouTube had of Taraf de Haïdouks, found him missing from recent videos, and, googling elsewhere, discovered he'd died. Taraf de Haïdouks doesn't seem the same without him.

---

So, from all of the above, you'd expect to find me a great Romaphile, right? Well, I'm not so sure. I've never met a self-identified Rom (which is to say, I've known one or two people with some Rom blood, but not one who had taken Romany identity to their heart like Eugene Hütz, the singer-songwriter behind Gogol Bordello, who, though only one quarter Rom by blood, clearly identifies strongly as Romany), but I suspect if I did meet Rom adhering to a traditional life, I might be put off by several aspects of their life, for example their loudness, or their morals, which evince no compunction about stealing items of low value from the Gaje when needs must, or "borrowing" and failing to give back:

He had no intention of keeping the scissors, since we would not need another haircut for a long time, and then, no doubt, other scissors could just as easily he had. He simply felt that the scissors could take care of themselves, that they would "get lost," or be borrowed by other Gypsies in need of them. It was certainly not out of an acquisitive instinct that Kore hesitated to take them back. He just failed to see why this was of any consequence.

Whilst certainly overshooting the mark for me, Eugene Hütz's lyrics hit uncomfortably close to home when he sings:

You love our music but you hate our guts
I know you still want me to ride in back of the bus

Comments

[curious-reader.livejournal.com]

It all sounds very pink and roses. It does not reflect the reality in any way. Unfortunately the gypsis make their living from either stealing or begging. Not an honest trade at all. That was my experience with my parents in Rome. We saw lots of Gyspsy beggars who sometimes used babies to get more money. We were warned not to take out our purses as they might take it all. It happened to other people. Maybe their situation does not give them a choice. I don't believe they stole children. I do believe they entertain themselves with good music and maybe they also get some pennies for it. Unless the government or social workers are helping them to get out of that cycle I don't see a real future.
I don't think gypsis survived the encounter with the Nazis. The Nazis killed the gypsis they could catch. The only way not being killed was fleeing to another country where it might have been saver.

[lethargic-man.livejournal.com]

It all sounds very pink and roses. It does not reflect the reality in any way.

I wasn't trying to give a definitive overview of the situation of Roma in all countries today.

Unfortunately the gypsis make their living from either stealing or begging.

Some do. Not all do.

That was my experience with my parents in Rome. We saw lots of Gyspsy beggars who sometimes used babies to get more money. We were warned not to take out our purses as they might take it all. It happened to other people. Maybe their situation does not give them a choice.

After we were pursued by a Gypsy beggar in Berlin, aviva_m told me they send people from Central Europe into the west to beg like this. I know that the Roma have a hard deal in Central Europe, where they have until recently, and possibly still today, been discriminated against and persecuted and forced to give up their traditional way of life. But that's not the case (or at least, not to the same extent) in the UK.

One of the themes of Gogol Bordello's music is the discrimination they have received. I'm not saying it's all roses, but it's a gross exaggeration to say that all Gypsies make their living begging and stealing.

I don't believe they stole children.

<rolls eyes> Of course they didn't!

I don't think gypsis survived the encounter with the Nazis. The Nazis killed the gypsis they could catch. The only way not being killed was fleeing to another country where it might have been saver.

Except that most of continental Europe ended up until the rule of the Nazis or their allies. The difference between the Roma and the Jews is that the Nazis didn't set out to exterminate the whole race; rather, they persecuted them as and when they saw them. Hundreds of thousands of Roma died in the Porrajmos, but, obviously, not all died or you wouldn't find Roma in Central Europe today.

In a way I think maybe the Roma are scarred deeper than the Jews by the Porrajmos, as the Romany anthem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Djelem,_djelem) refers to it in its lyrics. Or maybe it was just that the Jews had already come up with their nationalist anthem by the time of the Holocaust, and the Roma had not.

[green-knight.livejournal.com]

the difference between the Roma and the Jews is that the Nazis didn't set out to exterminate the whole race

That, unfortunately, is not entirely correct. The persecution of Roma was slower to develop, but by 1943, extermination of Roma - with the corresponding rounding up and killing of people of 'gipsy blood' was no less fierce than the attack on Jews. (I've recently copyedited a book on the topic which contained a lot of source material, so I feel qualified to speak with some authority.)

[curious-reader.livejournal.com]

Moving around in caravans and tents is living on the street. Moving away from that life style is a challenge. Whithout the help they got they would have not made it. Your friends do not live like that. You cannot compare that.

[green-knight.livejournal.com]

Moving away from that life style is a challenge.

Why do you feel that people should move away from that lifestyle, or that it's a desirable goal to do so?

Musicians live mobile lives. They might make millions (or tens of thousands, or just enough to live on): why is it ok to live like that when you have a tour bus and sleep in hotels (then you have 'made it') but not ok when it's your own caravan and you drive the vehicle yourself? (then you 'need help')?

[lethargic-man.livejournal.com]

Thank you for posting this and saving me the bother of saying substantially the same thing myself. :o)

[curious-reader.livejournal.com]

Sorry, I am not convinced. The famous and rich musicians I heard about do not live like that. Caravan camping is for poor people. Even former campers know it is living in poverty and givin up the comfort of your home. I made the same experience as the campers on BBC described. It is cold, you may not have a shower, you cannot wash your clothes, no electricity, no water, no toilet or if there is some sort of facilities you have to queue for it as lots of families do the same. Those special designed camping places are rare, too, and definitely not around every corner or even country. How can somebody turn up at the studio smelly with dirty clothing and then record or perform? They won't even let him in through the door. They have to change their life style with help first.

[lethargic-man.livejournal.com]

You may be surprised to learn the Roma traditionally lived in caravans out of choice, and they looked down on sedentary dwellers the same way you do on caravan dwellers.

Traditionally, they washed themselves and their clothes in rivers; they have a system of ritual purity called marimé as complex and as important to them as ours. Thus the idea of having a bath⁃soaking in your own dirty water⁃struck them as disgusting, and, though I can't remember for certain, I don't think they'd have been impressed with the idea of indoor toilets either.

To be sure, Anglo-Romany in this country have a problem with finding it too difficult to find approved campsites⁃and the current Tory government are doing their best to make that worse for them⁃but that's not to say that the Romany aren't nomadic, even today, out of choice; and moreover, there are people who choose to join them in a nomadic lifestyle too (New Age Travellers).

[curious-reader.livejournal.com]

Since the industrial revolution arrived in most countries round the world it is hard to find clean rivers. No way you can live like that nowadays. I have no idea how they manage. It is not an easy way to live. I do not know musicians who make lots of money and live under the worst condition. No pink and roses here.

[lethargic-man.livejournal.com]

Since the industrial revolution arrived in most countries round the world it is hard to find clean rivers.

Rubbish. Fifty years ago, maybe, you couldn't live like that. Nowadays there's laws keeping the rivers clean; you get fish swimming in the Tyne now, which you wouldn't have done when my parents were growing up. But, in general, if you have the choice of where to go, go further upstream than a big city!

No way you can live like that nowadays.

Tell that to all the people who do.

I have no idea how they manage. It is not an easy way to live.

It's a different way of life to live. That's why you have no idea how to live like that. You haven't had any experience of doing it.

I do not know musicians who make lots of money and live under the worst condition. No pink and roses here.

Possibly this is because you don't hang out with the right sorts of people to know musicians who do make a decent income. I met some at Fabien's wedding the other week; they play Irish music (in Ohio). They do lots and lots of travelling around to play gigs, but they seem comfortably well off.

(Also, you should try going to Ireland; all (well, many of) the pubs there have live musicians in at night. Not all societies have the same attitude towards supporting live music as we do here.)

[curious-reader.livejournal.com]

Those musicians you talk about do not live in caravans. They may move from hotel or bed and breakfast to another. You can't compare that. Nowadays it is difficult to live without having any facilities.

[lethargic-man.livejournal.com]

You're expressing your own preferences there.

Some years ago, a friend of mine was held up in an armed robbery. After the robbers had forced him to take money out of an ATM, they got him to take them to his flat so they could steal all his valuables. But, being a flat of frum Orthodox people, they didn't have the valuables the robbers were after. "Where's your plasma screen TV?" the robbers asked. "We don't have TV here," they replied. "How can you live like this!?" the robbers went.

The same applies here too.

[curious-reader.livejournal.com]

I know you told me that story. You don't need a TV to survive. I don't have one either and you don't. I probably won't need a computer either but could go to the library instead to use it or internet cafe. Old people often don't even know how to use it. They use the phone and write letters. Even the poorest live in a flat and have at least the most necessary things, clean water, clean clothing, a bed or matress, a kitchen with stoves and ovens and cupboards, a bathroom with shower or bath and a toilet and a roof over their head. If they don't have a washing machine at least they have laundrette round the corner and the phone. You won't have this in a caravan or tent especially when you are in the middle of nowhere.

[lethargic-man.livejournal.com]

Why are you so reluctant to acknowledge that other people might have different priorities from you as to what is important in life, and might choose to live differently? I had a work colleague once who lived in a narrowboat on a canal. He could have lived in a flat if he wanted, but he preferred to live on the canal.

Both if you live in a narrowboat and if you live in a caravan (I don't know where you got living in a tent from; this is not what the Roma or New Age Travellers do) you do have many of the things you list above: a bed and a kitchen with stoves and ovens and cupboards, and electricity from a generator or the car battery. Whilst there may not be a toilet in the caravan, as I said upthread, Roma in a traditional lifestyle probably don't want one. And 'phones, of course, nowadays don't have to be landlines; many people today only have mobiles, and get online through their mobiles too.

As for being in the middle of nowhere, who said anyone had to do that? Caravan parks come with facilities.

[curious-reader.livejournal.com]

You said they can wash themselves in rivers. There are no clean rivers in Europe. There are hardly any left in the world. If they depend on parking caravan facilities it is not easy either. There are not all around the corner. Not every gypsy makes enough money from music to survive. That is why I saw some of them begging and stealing in Rome. I doubt that every country has camping facilities. They even get rarer in the western world. If you make me believe moving from country to country only in a caravan is easy especially nowadays then you are wrong. Your friend is stationary. He knows where to get what from as he does not move around and adjusted to it. I guess his boat has all luxieries and has the facilities he needs. I know you can use mobile and you can also use public phones and the laundrette provided you are in a city or town with those facilities. When I came I had no phone and no washing machine. I used the facilities of the city. But everything else like clean running water and toilets were definitely there. The hostel provided meals. It was not a self-catering hostel. When I wanted something specific I could go out and buy it anywhere. If I had been living in the forest or somewhere not near anything I would have had a problem.

[green-knight.livejournal.com]

Unfortunately the gypsis make their living from either stealing or begging. Not an honest trade at all

That's a very prejudiced statement, and I hope that you take a good long look at what you wrote here.

Unless the government or social workers are helping them to get out of that cycle I don't see a real future.

Neither the government nor social workers can break the part of the cycle where you've just declared a whole ethnic group to be beggars and thieves. You can.

[curious-reader.livejournal.com]

After seeing all this maybe some got help and became musician. They were the lucky ones. It is a great competition out there. Not everybody makes it as an artist.

[lethargic-man.livejournal.com]

<rolls eyes> Making music is one of the things the Roma are noted for (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lautar). It's only recently, however, that the Romany musicians of eastern Europe have come to the attention of the West, partly due to being "discovered" by westerners and then promoted by famous westerners who like them, like Johnny Depp in the case of Taraf de Haïdouks. Taraf de Haïdouks are (or were a few years ago) in the situation of being popular in the west, but unknown in their own country, where people looked down on the Roma.

[curious-reader.livejournal.com]

It does not mean they can make a living with music. I know people know they make music. It is with any other art. Even famous painters lived in poverty all their life and when they were dead their paintings were sold for lots of money. As you said someone discovered them and helped them out of their situation. I can imagine that most countries look down on them. Once they have the reputation as beggars and thieves it is hard to get out it.

[lethargic-man.livejournal.com]

I don't know where you got the impression it's impossible to make money through the arts; it's not. It's a risky business, but, amongst people I know, autopope and papersky have chucked their dayjobs in and live solely on what they make through their writing now. I don't know about musicians, but if it's possible for writers, I'm sure it's possible for painters and musicians too. If you want to do it fulltime, it requires a fulltime amount of effort, but it's not unachievable.

[curious-reader.livejournal.com]

It is not impossible. It is just not easy especially for people who are basically coming from the street. Someone gave them a chance and gave them all they need to be proper musicians. Not everybody is so lucky.

[lethargic-man.livejournal.com]

Who said anything about coming from the street? The Roma who make a living as musicians did not start out as beggars! They started out as musicians.

(And I have thought of people I know who make a living as musicians; ewtikins is one of them.)