Restaurant review: Gam Gam, in Venice
Tuesday, August 30th, 2011 01:05 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
lethargic_manWhen I told people I was going to Venice, the response I got back from many of the Jewish ones was "Gam Gam", a kosher restaurant located in the Ghetto Vecchio. On being told they even offered Shabbos meals, I went online in search of how to book places. This restaurant, from what I experienced, appears to be a victim of its own success and of poor communications; anyone intending to go there at peak season should read the below before committing to it.
The first site I went to (the Chabad-administered Jewish Italy) gave me a server-side error when I tried using their "contact me" form; the (Chabad-administered) Jewish Venice site provided an email address, to which I got no response, despite writing in English, Hebrew and Google-translated Italian. Eventually I 'phoned them up, and was told we didn't need to make reservations, just turn up. (I later learned―too late for us―that one could have paid more for a reservation at an alternative site.)
After receiving conflicting information on when the Friday night service started, I turned up to the Ghetto in person to get times. The restaurant is run by Chabad (apparently by their messianic branch, to judge by the poster on their office window reading something like יחי אדונינו ומרינו המלך המושח לעולם ועד above a picture of the last Lubavitcher Rebbe); and a notice on the restaurant window said there would be candle-lighting at 7:55 followed by קַבֲּלַת שַׁבָּת and מַעֲרִיב in the (Chabad) yeshiva, then the meal in the restaurant.
Having not yet established where the yeshiva was, I asked someone outside the restaurant, after![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
aviva_m had lit candles, where the service was, and ended up being directed to the Spanish Synagogue (rather than the Chabad Yeshiva). (This at least meant we got to see this shul; it appears also to have been aviva_m's first experience of a Sephardi service.)
Afterwards, returning to Gam Gam we found a vastly larger number of people gathered outside than the restaurant was capable of holding. Nobody announced what was going on, but occasionally families were led inside. Eventually as many people as could squashed inside, where we sang שלום עליכם and אשת חיל, and a rabbinical-looking fellow made kiddush. He then made an announcement, informing us of the arrangements... in Hebrew. Only. Never mind the fact we were in Italy, never mind the fact almost 50% of the world Jewish population is Anglophone; if you couldn't understand Hebrew, screw you.
Whilst I can understand a bit of Hebrew, this was too fast for me. After washing for המוציא along with everyone else,aviva_m and myself remained hovering unhappily between the crowded restaurant interior and the crowd milling around outside for some time, with no one telling us what to do, and ourselves unable to ask for help, as one may not talk between making the בְּרָכָה for נטילת ידיים and eating the challah after המוציא.
Eventually, going around to the front of the restaurant, we discovered long benches and tables had been put out there, with another one being put up as we watched. Assuming more would be provided until everyone was able to sit down, we continued to wait... and wait... and wait. Eventually I broke my silence and asked when we would be able to sit down and eat... to be told the tables were full, and we should come back for the second shift in an hour.
I was not pleased. I wouldn't have minded if the web site had said this might be a possibility, so I could have planned for it. I would have preferred it still if they had taken reservations, so they could have told people when the first shift was full and that they would not be able to eat until such and such a time. Instead, we were left for maybe twenty minutes expecting a meal we were not going to get, and then an hour to kill in a foreign city, and little, on Shabbos, we could do in it.
We did eventually get fed, an hour later. The meal involved no Italian cuisine (which Gam Gam do offer on weekdays) at all, and only the Sephardi fish dish offered it any life whatsoever. I ate quite well, butaviva did not, as they had no vegetarian food; indeed, they did not even seem to know the word "vegetarian" (or צִמְחוֹנִי). They eventually served her, in place of cholent, more of the dips and salads she had had for hors d'oeuvre, and she went away hungry, having in no wise having received satisfaction for the €36 Gam Gam recommended as a donation for Shabbos meals.
On asking whether we'd risk the same treatment for Shabbos lunch, I was told no: fewer people came on Shabbos morning, and they should be able to manage a single shift.
Fat chance.
The following morning saw the same story all over again, only with the addition this time of (a) the carabinieri ordering the people waiting for the second shift to move on from outside the restaurant, as they were blocking the way, (b) wrongly being told we'd only need to wait half an hour (it was a full hour again), (c) the mouth-watering salmon we saw being carried out for the first shift having run out by the second shift, such that we ended up dining instead on the leftovers from the previous night. So much for the "food and fun for everyone" promised on the website.
I wouldn't put up with this kind of service from any other restaurant; the only reason I put up with it from Gam Gam was because I didn't have any choice. I haven't yet paid them for my Shabbos meals; when I do, I plan to give them a large, negative, tip.
The following day we had more choice, as HappyCow listed two vegetarian places in Venice. Since both of them were a long way across the city, and more cafes than restaurants, when we wanted a proper meal, we decided, come evening, to give GamGam an opportunity to redeem itself. So we went back, arriving there at 9:15 (the earliest we could manage after a full day's tourism)... and were told (despite the presence of an empty table or two) that they were fully booked, and the earliest we could eat was 10:15.
This was completely unacceptable to me, as we were planning to get up early the following morning. I ended up storming off in a huff, informing them loudly of how bad a review they were going to get on the Internet; and unless anybody can say anything here to placate me, I am going to distribute a redacted version of this review as widely as possible. (It's not my intention to try and put Gam Gam out of business, but anyone who goes there in peak season should certainly be aware of what they're letting themselves in for.)
(Finally, as a postscript, a brief review of the other kosher restaurant we tried out on our holiday, the Albergo Ristorante at the Maraschina Hotel on the outskirts of Peschiera del Garda: This seems to cater largely for booked groups at the hotel; they were surprised to see us turn up without a reservation, but agreed to feed us, for €25 per person. Again, there was no Italian food, and vegetarian fare not too impressive (though not as bad as Gam Gam). Also, unlike every other restaurant we saw in Italy, they did not assume one was eating late, and by the time we turned up, they were beginning to wind down for the evening.
I think I should add, though, lest anyone come away with a bad view of all kosher restaurants in Italy, that the ones in Rome I ate at a few years ago were all good, and varied from €6 for a shwarma to €40 for a fish dish I failed to realise was charged by the hectogram, not the kilogram...)
The first site I went to (the Chabad-administered Jewish Italy) gave me a server-side error when I tried using their "contact me" form; the (Chabad-administered) Jewish Venice site provided an email address, to which I got no response, despite writing in English, Hebrew and Google-translated Italian. Eventually I 'phoned them up, and was told we didn't need to make reservations, just turn up. (I later learned―too late for us―that one could have paid more for a reservation at an alternative site.)
After receiving conflicting information on when the Friday night service started, I turned up to the Ghetto in person to get times. The restaurant is run by Chabad (apparently by their messianic branch, to judge by the poster on their office window reading something like יחי אדונינו ומרינו המלך המושח לעולם ועד above a picture of the last Lubavitcher Rebbe); and a notice on the restaurant window said there would be candle-lighting at 7:55 followed by קַבֲּלַת שַׁבָּת and מַעֲרִיב in the (Chabad) yeshiva, then the meal in the restaurant.
Having not yet established where the yeshiva was, I asked someone outside the restaurant, after
aviva_m had lit candles, where the service was, and ended up being directed to the Spanish Synagogue (rather than the Chabad Yeshiva). (This at least meant we got to see this shul; it appears also to have been aviva_m's first experience of a Sephardi service.)Afterwards, returning to Gam Gam we found a vastly larger number of people gathered outside than the restaurant was capable of holding. Nobody announced what was going on, but occasionally families were led inside. Eventually as many people as could squashed inside, where we sang שלום עליכם and אשת חיל, and a rabbinical-looking fellow made kiddush. He then made an announcement, informing us of the arrangements... in Hebrew. Only. Never mind the fact we were in Italy, never mind the fact almost 50% of the world Jewish population is Anglophone; if you couldn't understand Hebrew, screw you.
Whilst I can understand a bit of Hebrew, this was too fast for me. After washing for המוציא along with everyone else,
aviva_m and myself remained hovering unhappily between the crowded restaurant interior and the crowd milling around outside for some time, with no one telling us what to do, and ourselves unable to ask for help, as one may not talk between making the בְּרָכָה for נטילת ידיים and eating the challah after המוציא.Eventually, going around to the front of the restaurant, we discovered long benches and tables had been put out there, with another one being put up as we watched. Assuming more would be provided until everyone was able to sit down, we continued to wait... and wait... and wait. Eventually I broke my silence and asked when we would be able to sit down and eat... to be told the tables were full, and we should come back for the second shift in an hour.
I was not pleased. I wouldn't have minded if the web site had said this might be a possibility, so I could have planned for it. I would have preferred it still if they had taken reservations, so they could have told people when the first shift was full and that they would not be able to eat until such and such a time. Instead, we were left for maybe twenty minutes expecting a meal we were not going to get, and then an hour to kill in a foreign city, and little, on Shabbos, we could do in it.
We did eventually get fed, an hour later. The meal involved no Italian cuisine (which Gam Gam do offer on weekdays) at all, and only the Sephardi fish dish offered it any life whatsoever. I ate quite well, but
aviva did not, as they had no vegetarian food; indeed, they did not even seem to know the word "vegetarian" (or צִמְחוֹנִי). They eventually served her, in place of cholent, more of the dips and salads she had had for hors d'oeuvre, and she went away hungry, having in no wise having received satisfaction for the €36 Gam Gam recommended as a donation for Shabbos meals.On asking whether we'd risk the same treatment for Shabbos lunch, I was told no: fewer people came on Shabbos morning, and they should be able to manage a single shift.
Fat chance.
The following morning saw the same story all over again, only with the addition this time of (a) the carabinieri ordering the people waiting for the second shift to move on from outside the restaurant, as they were blocking the way, (b) wrongly being told we'd only need to wait half an hour (it was a full hour again), (c) the mouth-watering salmon we saw being carried out for the first shift having run out by the second shift, such that we ended up dining instead on the leftovers from the previous night. So much for the "food and fun for everyone" promised on the website.
I wouldn't put up with this kind of service from any other restaurant; the only reason I put up with it from Gam Gam was because I didn't have any choice. I haven't yet paid them for my Shabbos meals; when I do, I plan to give them a large, negative, tip.
The following day we had more choice, as HappyCow listed two vegetarian places in Venice. Since both of them were a long way across the city, and more cafes than restaurants, when we wanted a proper meal, we decided, come evening, to give GamGam an opportunity to redeem itself. So we went back, arriving there at 9:15 (the earliest we could manage after a full day's tourism)... and were told (despite the presence of an empty table or two) that they were fully booked, and the earliest we could eat was 10:15.
This was completely unacceptable to me, as we were planning to get up early the following morning. I ended up storming off in a huff, informing them loudly of how bad a review they were going to get on the Internet; and unless anybody can say anything here to placate me, I am going to distribute a redacted version of this review as widely as possible. (It's not my intention to try and put Gam Gam out of business, but anyone who goes there in peak season should certainly be aware of what they're letting themselves in for.)
(Finally, as a postscript, a brief review of the other kosher restaurant we tried out on our holiday, the Albergo Ristorante at the Maraschina Hotel on the outskirts of Peschiera del Garda: This seems to cater largely for booked groups at the hotel; they were surprised to see us turn up without a reservation, but agreed to feed us, for €25 per person. Again, there was no Italian food, and vegetarian fare not too impressive (though not as bad as Gam Gam). Also, unlike every other restaurant we saw in Italy, they did not assume one was eating late, and by the time we turned up, they were beginning to wind down for the evening.
I think I should add, though, lest anyone come away with a bad view of all kosher restaurants in Italy, that the ones in Rome I ate at a few years ago were all good, and varied from €6 for a shwarma to €40 for a fish dish I failed to realise was charged by the hectogram, not the kilogram...)
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no subject
Date: 2011-08-30 06:00 pm (UTC)Your experience with Shabbat and meals sounds like a nightmare. At least you could get into the service. Lots of Shuls on the main land Europe including small Islands belonging to it make it even hard to get into a Shul at all. You usually have to tell them in advanced or you have to be member to go on Friday night. In Germany I often experienced that I had to bring my passport. That was often a normal Shabbat. It was at more places on High Holidays. We were all scanned like at an airport for any possible weapons. And they called themselves Orthodox. I doubt that every city I experienced it had an eruv. I don't think they even know what that is. I was not allowed to the Cologne one on Friday night because I had no membership anywhere.
no subject
Date: 2011-08-30 06:23 pm (UTC)Don't be daft. There's plenty of Italian food that can be done in an eminently kosher way, and as I said above Gam Gam do serve Italian food during the week.
Your experience with Shabbat and meals sounds like a nightmare. At least you could get into the service. Lots of Shuls on the main land Europe including small Islands belonging to it make it even hard to get into a Shul at all. You usually have to tell them in advanced or you have to be member to go on Friday night.
It's always wise to check in advance. We had to 'phone the security guy in advance, and he told us to bring our passports (not a problem, as Venice has an eruv).
In Germany I often experienced that I had to bring my passport. That was often a normal Shabbat.
I had that in Berlin when I tried out the Sephardi shul on Simchas Torah, and I didn't have mine on me. The security man let me in eventually; if he had not, I would have stood outside and davened from memory until I had embarrassed him enough to let me in.
no subject
Date: 2011-08-31 05:41 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-08-31 07:56 pm (UTC)How about the quintessential Italian dish, spaghetti bolognaise? Many fish dishes will be fine; there are also vegetarian pizzas and so forth. Plus, of course, dishes can be adapted, e.g. making lasagna without cheese, or with tuna instead of meat.
I have my doubts that Berlin since the wall came down has a closed eruv, anywhere.
There isn't. It hadn't occurred to me beforehand that the Berlin Wall would have counted as one. I wonder if it was actually treated as one...
If you needed to bring a passport and cared about shemiras Shabbos, you could try and make arrangements beforehand (e.g. sending a copy of the passport page), or failing that try and attach yours to your Shabbos belt. I never had that problem, as I turned up the first time along with a shul member, and they know me there now.
I have never such a big problem getting into a Shul in England as I had on main land Europe. It is a completely different world.
FWIW, I walked into not just one shul but two in Nice (the Orthodox and the Massorti) unannounced with no problems, and by contrast I had problems with security turning up unannounced at Dublin, so it varies.
no subject
Date: 2011-09-01 02:57 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-09-01 03:06 pm (UTC)You're being deliberately obtuse. You can make spaghetti bolognaise that way, but you can't argue that making it with beef only and no cheese is not a variety of spaghetti bolognaise, nor that it is not Italian. Maybe the Italian dishes in Gam Gam's weekday menu aren't made exactly the same way they would be in a non-kosher Italian restaurant, but you've got a lot of hubris to come along and say that they're not Italian because they don't have cheese as well as meat in them.
It is against the Jewish laws making people carry something at all.
Correct, but the whole point about Shabbos belts is that it is not against the Jewish law to wear things.
I don't think the real passport control or employer will be happy about people making wholes in their passports.
You wouldn't need to make holes necessarily (I'd need to have a look at my passport to be certain about this), and even if you do, doing so in an inner page wouldn't be noticed. But in any case, as I pointed out, I'm sure anyone who approached a shul beforehand and said they couldn't carry their passport would be allowed to come to an alternative arrangement.
no subject
Date: 2011-09-01 03:33 pm (UTC)You said you did not get Italian food in Jewish restaurants. That means for me it does not exist. Then tell me where you got Italian food in a Jewish restaurant. We make alternatives because we are not Italian. We cannot even make it taste almost authentic. I do not know which spices and herbs and how much an Italian chef puts in his food. It will never be close to it.
no subject
Date: 2011-09-01 08:08 pm (UTC)All I know is that I've never heard of a Jew who won't carry on Shabbos being unable to get in to a synagogue on visiting a town. I'm sure it'll always be possible to manage without, even if it takes personally ringing up the rabbi of the town and hassling them first!
You said you did not get Italian food in Jewish restaurants. That means for me it does not exist. Then tell me where you got Italian food in a Jewish restaurant.
As I said multiple times, Gam Gam, which I did not attend on a weekday, serves food, to quote their online menu (http://www.jewishvenice.org/article.php?page_1117) including: "Sardines Venetian Style", "Pasticcio Gam Gam" ("GAM GAM’s own special lasagna, filled with delicious vegetables"), "Branzino" ("the taste of historical Venetian fare").
I probably did as well in Rome, only I can't remember all the meals I had their.
We make alternatives because we are not Italian.
We make alternatives because we are not Italian and to make it kosher. They (Italian kosher restaurants) make alternatives to make it kosher.
We cannot even make it taste almost authentic. I do not know which spices and herbs and how much an Italian chef puts in his food. It will never be close to it.
It is possible to find out, you know. It's not a national secret guarded by the Mafia...
no subject
Date: 2011-09-01 03:38 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-09-01 08:11 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-08-31 08:25 am (UTC)Darmowy katalog stron
Date: 2011-09-29 06:15 pm (UTC)