Long S

[lethargic_man]

This is embarraſsing: I have juſt realiſed I failed to uſe a long S in my German language icon. I ſhall have to correct it at the earlieſt poſsible opportunity.

Comments

[liv]

Did blackletter have the long s, then?

[lethargic_man]

Yes, and indeed German still uses it in the form of ß, which originated as an ſz ligature (as is clear from its name and in blackletter usage such as this—what I don't get is why it capitalises to SS and not SZ).

[liv]

Oooh, cool example, thank you.

[lethargic_man]

You do know about the examples of long S survival in English—the integral sign and shillings sign, yesno?

[green_knight]

My problem with isolated long 's' in text, such as above, is that it makes me liſp...

[curious_reader]

The Germans messed up spelling to prevent to write too many long S's and make it apparently easier for children to learn. I was just confused when I had to learn it in the 1990 and 2000 in College. Everybody decided to keep the old writing at the end. The teachers accepted the old writing as well as it did make more sense and people were used to it and just too old to change again.

[lethargic_man]

The Germans messed up spelling to prevent to write too many long S's and make it apparently easier for children to learn

I think perhaps you mean sharp S's; German does not use isolated long S's.

Everybody decided to keep the old writing at the end. The teachers accepted the old writing as well as it did make more sense and people were used to it and just too old to change again.

A look on Wikipedia suggests that the more controversial bits of the reform were dropped; the rest remained.

Certainly my German book, which dates from after that, uses, for example, lower-case for "du", etc.

[curious_reader]

As long as it is not a letter you always write "du" in lower-case. What has changed is the "du" in letters. It used to be upper-case.

[curious_reader]

I just generalized. I know you do not have one of these twice in one word and not at the beginning either. I am not that stupid. I did pay attention in school when it came to German spelling in particular.

[curious_reader]

Your book should also use more of a long S than it is used in the reformed version. I still don't like the reform version. It is only confusing.

[lethargic_man]

You're still getting confused between a long S, which is this: ſ, and a sharp S, which is ß, which originated as an ſz ligature. German does not use isolated long S.

[curious_reader]

OK, I meant the sharp one. I don't know why you come up with an old German writing. Nobody uses Gothic letters anymore. It is just confusing. You supposed to learn modern German.

[lethargic_man]

I used blackletter because it's Mark Twain speaking, and German was written in blackletter in his day.

Also, because it's very evocative of the German language, and because I like old things.

As for nobody using it anymore, possibly they don't, but they still appreciate it. Many signs here, including S-Bahn stations such as in the photograph I linked to above, are in blackletter. And I have this hanging on the wall to my right here.

[curious_reader]

I have to write "dass" with double ss here because my computer does not allow me to use the long S not even insert one accept in Open Office. But in the new reform German spelling that is how it is accepted. I am not happy with the English keyboard. I have difficulties writing any other language correctly.

[lethargic_man]

I have to write "dass" with double ss here

Oh, I hadn't realised it was ever not spelled that way. That is the post-reform way I was taught to spell it.

because my computer does not allow me to use the long S not even insert one accept in Open Office.

According to Wikipedia, you can type it with Alt+0223 or Alt+225.

[curious_reader]

Yes, I tried and failed. My computer laptop does not recognize it. I also do not have a number pad on the site as normal computers have. I can only go for character map search for it copy and paste it which takes ages.

[lethargic_man]

You will probably have a number pad overlaid on the alphabetical keys, with a function button to press at the same time to use them as numbers, providing Num Lock is on. You ought to be able to enter alt key codes this way.

[curious_reader]

It is automatically on but does not let me do anything. Maybe I need a software for it.

[lethargic_man]

I very much doubt that; I think it more likely you're doing something wrong.

[curious_reader]

I tried everything possible with and without instructions from the internet. Even your suggestion does not work. Laptops are often limited to a certain language. I have the character map that is always available but that means as I said finding each single letter copy and paste it. It is Windows XP with a renovated laptop. It has not everything. The internet already warned me that some Microsoft Operating Systems may not provide the service. That is obviously true to mine, unfortunately.

[lethargic_man]

How much do you want to bet that I can get it working?

An alternative solution is to do what I do, which is use an editor (Emacs in my case), which allows you to use multiple keystrokes to enter non-Latin characters.