lethargic_man: (capel)
[personal profile] lethargic_man
I previously posted this in [livejournal.com profile] weirdjews3_14 but didn't get get much response, so am crossposting it too here.

Every Shabbos I go to shul and they read a portion from the Torah service—and (except when I'm leyning, being gabbai or standing sgan) I totally ignore what's being read, and read the English and commentary instead. For many years that meant the Hertz or Cohen Soncino chumashim, until I got really rather familiar with in particular the former of these. Then I encountered the Etz Chayim chumash, and read that when I could get hold of it for two or three years.

Last year as Simchas Torah came round, I took down the copy of The Living Torah I'd been given as a cheder prize, and never done more than dipped into; and have this last year been reading it, one sedra at a time, cover to cover.

This year it occurred to me I might do something radical, and (shock! horror!) read something other than the weekly Torah portion, as (a) there's plenty else I'm not so knowledgeable on, and (b) it would mean I could come back to the Torah fresh next year. I thought it might be an idea to read a commentary on the Book of Psalms,* as we read so many of them in the service, and I scarcely know more about them than what's in the text itself. So I thought of the Soncino edition, as, if it's anything like the Cohen chumash, it'll be a trustworthy redaction of traditional Jewish commentaries (i.e. not suffering (or not anywhere near so blatantly) from the, ah, blinkeredness of the commentary in the Artscroll siddur).

But I thought I'd post my idea here before I bought the book blind, in case anyone has any recommendations of other Psalms commentaries.

* I also thought of reading the copy of The Book of Our Heritage I was given by my Barmitzvah teacher cover to cover, but I can do that in parallel.

Date: 2008-09-21 12:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hatam-soferet.livejournal.com
Could just be that very few people know anything at all about Psalms commentary?

Date: 2008-09-21 12:24 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hatam-soferet.livejournal.com
After all, even Gabriel didn't have much to say when I asked him, and he's about the biggest Nach nutter imaginable.

Date: 2008-09-21 12:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dhole.livejournal.com
As far as Psalms go, I really think that the poetry is the thing. Best thing to do is sit with the text, the BDB, and a concordance, and try and work out the words.

Having tried that, I've found the Artscroll translation to be surprisingly unobjectionable. They miss a fair number of subtleties, but they get more right than any of the other translations I've tried.

As a rule of thumb, when you're looking at a translation, see how it handles "aphikim banegev"; the most rational translation would be along the lines of a flash flood, but a lot of the versions that rework 19th century and earlier translations will say something like "rivulets", as the authors didn't know much about deserts.

Date: 2008-09-21 01:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lethargic-man.livejournal.com
Best thing to do is sit with the text, the BDB, and a concordance, and try and work out the words.

BDB?

Having tried that, I've found the Artscroll translation to be surprisingly unobjectionable. They miss a fair number of subtleties, but they get more right than any of the other translations I've tried.

Translation, maybe, but the commentary in the siddur is too firmly entrenched in the Abraham-went-to-Yeshiva model for my taste.

As a rule of thumb, when you're looking at a translation, see how it handles "aphikim banegev"; the most rational translation would be along the lines of a flash flood, but a lot of the versions that rework 19th century and earlier translations will say something like "rivulets", as the authors didn't know much about deserts.

Well, if it's anything like the Soncino chumash, it'll use the JPS 1917 translation, which is heavily based on the KJV. But it's not so much translation I'm after—I already have the JPS 1917 translation plus the Artscroll for whatever's in the siddur (or machzor)—but a deeper understanding of the text.

Date: 2008-09-21 01:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dhole.livejournal.com
The BDB is the Brown Driver Briggs Lexicon. It gives parallels from other Semitic languages, and it's the best tool for doing translation that I've encountered.

As far as translation versus commentary, I suppose this is a difference in approach; when I'm dealing with a primary source and commentaries, I can't really face the commentaries until I know exactly what the text means. Or, at least, get a sense of where the text is difficult -- a lot of the commentary that you get on Nach is grammarian type stuff; hard to understand if you're working from a KJV or derivative.

Date: 2008-09-21 01:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lethargic-man.livejournal.com
The BDB is the Brown Driver Briggs Lexicon. It gives parallels from other Semitic languages, and it's the best tool for doing translation that I've encountered.

Well, I've got Klein's Etymological Dictionary of the Hebrew Language, which does likewise; and found that that, plus the Langenscheidt's Pocket Hebrew Dictionary to the Old Testament that my barmitzvah teacher (!) gave me, my Bantam-Megiddo McDictionary, and the texts in the second and third edition Singer's and Artscroll siddurim sufficient to the task when I was translating the Friday night service for my Wandering Jews Friday night siddurette.

As far as translation versus commentary, I suppose this is a difference in approach; when I'm dealing with a primary source and commentaries, I can't really face the commentaries until I know exactly what the text means. Or, at least, get a sense of where the text is difficult -- a lot of the commentary that you get on Nach is grammarian type stuff; hard to understand if you're working from a KJV or derivative.

Well, I do have some understanding of the Hebrew language already. But I think you're taking the subject far more seriously than I intended: after all, I don't normally shlep a bunch of dictionaries to shul when I sit and read the commentary on the Torah reading!
Edited Date: 2008-09-21 01:31 pm (UTC)

Date: 2008-09-21 02:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dhole.livejournal.com
But I think you're taking the subject far more seriously than I intended


Seems likely!

The thing is, I have a reasonable degree of Hebrew fluency as well. And Psalms is one of the books that consistently stumps me. I'd give similar(ly useless) is you were trying to get a better sense of the medieval piyutim, or suchlike.

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